[0:00:52] Emily: Hi there friend, thank you so much for those open mic minutes worship songs. You know that we are going to be listening to those and add them to our worship playlist. So good before we get into today’s episode, I wanted to offer a quick disclaimer. The song that we talk about in this episode was actually taken down yesterday and we’re very thankful for that and you might not agree with us, but wanted to note that we are not slamming this singer songwriter at all and we’ve chosen to keep this episode because the truth in it is still relevant to the age that we live in and relevant to christian culture, not just I. F. B. Um this is a really important thing for us to talk about and deal with. Thanks so much for being here and without further ado here is today’s episode and

[0:01:56] Lois: hey guys and welcome to the R. F. W. P. Podcast where we are seeking truth and finding God’s heart. But right now I am going to summon my inner J. C. Grows from the RFP from the recovering fundamentalist podcast and say, let’s go,

[0:02:25] Emily: that was perfect.

[0:02:27] Lois: It was a little bit more 10or then J. C. Does, but you know, still it was there the gravel was there, Don’t you think it was totally, yeah, Okay, I’ll stop doing it before it gets creepy. So we’re coming at you live, right? No, we’re not live, but we are a little raw right now. I am your host, Lois Mcnair and with me is my co host

[0:03:01] Emily: Emily, Louis and

[0:03:02] Lois: Emily, I’m just going to ask you right off the bat girl, do you have a quote of the week?

[0:03:09] Emily: I don’t know if you’re ready for it, but I’m ready to

[0:03:12] Lois: hit me

[0:03:14] Emily: modest is hottest.

[0:03:16] Lois: Oh, grij so bad. Oh my gosh, I can’t believe you just said that.

[0:03:30] Emily: I really didn’t want to.

[0:03:33] Lois: I know we were, we actually had a completely different episodes scheduled for our 20th episode. Hey guys, by the way, it’s our 20th episode. This is when you go and the crowd goes wild. Uh oh, modest is hottest. Did you hear the sarcasm in Emily’s voice? I tried, Okay, so I’m just gonna tell you a trigger warning right now. You may or may not want to listen to the rest this episode because we’re a little on fire and we are taking to task. The phrase modest is hottest based on yet another set of lyrics or blog post or whatever that came out this week, even though I do like the singer songwriter, I really do. So I’m like really, really dude,

[0:04:38] Emily: yeah, I love truth be told. Oh man, yeah, that song is good.

[0:04:44] Lois: So our plan is we’re not throwing the writer under the bus. Were just want to,

[0:04:52] Emily: we want to untwist the narrative

[0:04:54] Lois: on twist the narrative hashtag UNtwist the narrative. We

[0:05:00] Emily: want to go after the thinking like the foundation behind the idea that perpetuates this teaching towards girls.

[0:05:12] Lois: Okay, so there’s been so many people over probably the last 56 maybe even longer years that have used the terminology modest is hottest. Okay. Um, when I mentioned it to somebody in my travels this past week and said, have you seen the video? Blah, blah, blah? They’re like, oh yeah, um that phrase was made famous by the duggar family.

[0:05:39] Emily: Oh really?

[0:05:40] Lois: And I’m like, it was how how well did that work out for us, a couple of the family so we can talk about that later. But um, I would love to hear um, some of the things you noticed this week on social media regarding modest is hottest. I think somebody that you follow posted something I thought was really good. But why don’t we start from the why you and I have a major problem with that term with that quote. That modest is hottest

[0:06:24] Emily: to give people some context. Do you mind reading a couple of those lines and then we can jump in. Okay

[0:06:32] Lois: And can, I don’t know if I should give a caveat or not, but I’m sure that it was well meaning dads want to be protective of their daughters thing, you know? So people are going to react in different ways. But for those of you who don’t understand why other people were triggered by this. Uh huh. We’re back to the listen to somebody’s story. May not be your story, but you know not everybody’s going to think the way that you think especially not me right now. Okay, so here’s some of the lines, all the parents be saying their prayers. I’m okay with that. Parents saying my prayers that all their girls, they’ll be weighing wearing more layers. Not sure that I prayed that moms and dads around the world. Yeah, they’re on their knees again. I’m good with prayer. Lord make them more like jesus and less like Cardi B. Yeah, Okay. No offense to Cardi B. I’m sure she’s a really nice girl and jesus loves her. But I just think modest is hottest. The latest fashion trend is a little more Amish and a little less Kardashian. What the boys really love is a turtleneck and a sensible pair of slacks. Honey modest is hottest, sincerely. Your dad, what the boys really love is a one piece with a raincoat over that.

[0:08:07] Emily: Uh, and then

[0:08:08] Lois: it goes on and I’m not going to read anymore lyrics at this time. I may find some more in a minute. So what about that sets you off Emily, mother of four daughters. uh

[0:08:23] Emily: huh. Okay. So listening to the song, I really tried not to hate it. And part of me, I definitely had already seen a lot about it before. I like watched it. So I already had a bias and I really don’t. I have a problem with the satire of it. What? What got me really hot today when I listened to the song.

[0:08:49] Lois: Wait, you mean hot? As in and you agree? Okay, big number. We’re trying to understand narrative to say somebody is hot. Okay. Okay.

[0:09:03] Emily: So what got me really agitated? Uh what put a burr under my saddle? Was the line what the boys really love? Or is it what the boys really like?

[0:09:18] Lois: Low? It’s what the boys really love.

[0:09:20] Emily: Okay, please do not tell my daughters how to dress to make somebody else happy. Like I can, I can laugh at the satire of the song. I think I can. But that line you just, you just crossed. Just cross something. They’re telling girls that they should be worried about what other people think about what they wear and that they should be dressing modest because that’s what the boys like. Just hmm.

[0:09:55] Lois: So somebody tweeted today, want to know why people are so upset about the song. She says I grew up in that culture. Hmm Let me tell you about all the shame that I still carry. Let me tell you about every time I’ve second guessed what I put on to go to the grocery store. Let me tell you about my moments of crisis. Every time I’ve been honked at while I was running. Let me tell you about the fallout my husband and I still face of him being told, um, he’s an inherently sexual being and I’m a stumbling block. Let me tell you about the times I listened to marry women, advise you how to tune out when it’s time to have sex. Let me tell you about the churchmen who were forgiven of their affairs and their wives were blamed because he wanted elsewhere. Let me tell you what it’s like to be told men want to conquer and women just need to control their emotions. Let me tell you about all the slurs. I’ve heard women called from the lips of Godly men. The jokes are about rehab. The jokes about bathsheba. The excuses for David. The dismissal of Solomon. It’s just a funny song until your years into your marriage, asking yourself what’s normal and what’s considered trauma? And she goes on to talk about it. Yeah,

[0:11:32] Emily: can I say from a girl’s perspective, and I think I said this on my interview with Sheila re Gregoire, but from a girl’s perspective, this affected me to

[0:11:43] Lois: tell me about that. Tell me about that because

[0:11:46] Emily: I I was I’m still to this day, have to work to overcome uh, my training that objectifies men in my in my life as a woman. I have to b intentional about noticing a man as a person rather than being afraid of him, not that he will abuse or objectify me, but that everything was so oversexualized with this modesty culture, that it’s it’s hard to have a real relationship with someone of the opposite sex.

[0:12:42] Lois: Yeah, just a platonic friendship type of type of thing. And let me just say this as a mom of daughters and sons that are grown and you and you and I talked about this earlier today Emily and you have four daughters. Of course we want our kids to dress in a way that accentuates who they are in christ that it, that goes with their personality, that um, that you know, I know the verse that our body is a temple even though that’s talking more about internally. But just yeah, of course we want our kids too dress in a way that is, I don’t even know how to word it. You worded it perfectly today. I think I’m too frustrated to try to word it. Right?

[0:13:44] Emily: Well, I think what I said was I think I want my daughters to dress as a daughter of the most hiking, as a representative of him. I want them to walk and know that they are a temple of the holy spirit living inside of them. And I don’t, I want them to feel shame. I want them to their clothing to be a reflection of that and not policed by someone else’s expectations of what that would look like. But them knowing who they are as a daughter of the king, as a representative of him, right? Yes, but not police or wondering what someone else is thinking about what they were.

[0:14:35] Lois: Well and here’s the thing too when you just said um I can already hear the critics when you just said that you want your daughters to dress um as you know a daughter of the king and that represents christ. Then somebody wants to turn around and slap a list of dues and don’t with their clothing. Um The duggars did make the terminology modest is hottest, pretty popular during that show. In fact to the point where there are Pinterest boards, basically a modest is hottest, you know? Um, and so here’s the thing. There are all different people, all different denominations, all different religions, all different cults that believe that they have the answer for what modest is hottest. They have the answer for what is modest clothing and what is not modest clothing. And we perpetuated this not just in our culture, but in our church culture. We have perpetuated this for years. To the point, we’re there are people who honestly think that that’s the norm, but what do you do with the girls that supposedly modest is hottest and yet they will stand there and have a picture taken of them and beside it, say this is what I was wearing when I was raped in the church or out of the church and they’ve got on a long sleeve shirt with a collar up to their neck, a skirt down to their ankles. So again, what we’re saying is there’s no responsibility for the young men, it’s all on the young ladies. So when you make a statement or a song or lyrics or whatever, that modest is hottest. I understand that a dad can come from a point of I just want to protect my daughters. I know that the guys that are out there, I know the creeps that are out there or you know, even I just want to protect my daughter’s okay. I get that my husband feels very strongly about our girls and our water in law. You know, like I get that. But when you make the standard of how someone treated because of the way they dress, you’re sending the wrong message. Do

[0:17:19] Emily: you know what I would love? I would love a song to the boys.

[0:17:27] Lois: Oh speaking of Boys. Yeah. There was this viral video a while back of all of these boys singing I think on a football field

[0:17:37] Emily: without this horrendous. Yes,

[0:17:39] Lois: remember that. Okay, so we are perpetuating this generation that it helps me if you don’t dress that way. So I don’t have to I’m not saying that they’re not that they’re saying that they don’t have to work harder. So this is not a women versus men concept. This is a stop perpetuating the narrative, that nothing’s going to happen, nothing is going to be wrong. And that a woman is you know, has to cover up from the neck to the ankles because that will help the boys stay pure.

[0:18:23] Emily: And I think there’s a lot of damage with telling a girl especially using the word hottest because we’re sexualizing a girl. Mhm. Whether she’s covered or not by saying that modest is hot. Like I don’t appreciate that word used around teenage girls, right?

[0:18:51] Lois: Or honestly around boys.

[0:18:54] Emily: Sure. You know,

[0:18:56] Lois: checking out the six packs. Oh my gosh, He’s so hot. You know, here’s the thing. We continue to perpetuate that over sexualization Um inside the church and outside the church to the point where we forget and I know that this term has kind of been the hot term the last 18 months And it should have been the hot term for the last 1800 years. But we have to look at people that they are a creation of God. They are made in the image of God. That doesn’t mean that everybody is a believer. That doesn’t mean that everybody is a child of God that has accepted him. We are not all God’s Children. So don’t come at me with your theology. I know that we are not all God’s Children. We are all God’s creation. Mm. And because we are made in the image of God, whether you’ve accepted christ or not. And my prayer is that you do. But if we are made in the image of God, then we have to look at each other as image bears as a person who’s made in the image of God. But we see it all all down through history. Let me tell you how twisted this context, how twisted this narrative has been for years. And just recently I was reading like today I was reading a sermon from a pastor who was basically saying if Dina from the old testament had not been hanging out with the wrong crowd and going and doing what she had done, then she wouldn’t have been raped.

[0:20:49] Emily: Uh, No. Okay. Mm hmm.

[0:20:53] Lois: Okay. So, so it’s to mars, uh, it’s her um fault too, that she got raped by a family member. No, she went into care for him because she was told he was sick. Guess what? She didn’t have on, um, a crop top and a pair of booty shorts. I guarantee you she went in dressed from head to toe with a veil. Right? You know, you’ve got women in other countries and other cultures that are only allowed to have their eyes show and yet they’re being hurt, raped. Downgraded. So when you say that modest is hottest to me, it flies in the face of all of the victims that have ever been abused when they were dressed quote unquote appropriately.

[0:21:53] Emily: Absolutely. And it goes, I think that’s what I was trying to say when I was saying, you need to notice people,

[0:22:02] Lois: yep.

[0:22:04] Emily: For their whole person and that’s what I’m learning to do. That God is healing in my heart and teaching me that there is my husband and I were talking about the song today and he said we need to recognize that there’s a huge difference between attraction and lust and it’s so good. It’s totally natural to be attracted to someone, right? Whether it is their physique or their personality, it’s natural. That’s a natural response and that’s what God

[0:22:43] Lois: created us,

[0:22:44] Emily: That’s what we need to normalize. And then when lust enters the conversation, we can we can go wait a second. That’s different, dwelling on someone thinking about it, beginning

[0:22:58] Lois: to dream or or fantasize to be with that person and all of those things. I don’t know, we’re kind of stepping into the deep end of the pool, but I’m tired of Uh huh, wow. I guess I’m with you in the fact that I’m tired of it being able to quote unquote, be a joke.

[0:23:25] Emily: Uh Yes,

[0:23:27] Lois: you know, here, here’s an example. Um I don’t I don’t know this author, but um a guy named Joel Michael Herbert reposted a blog post of his on twitter today. Okay. He wrote this blog post in 2017, Wow. Almost, almost like he he posted this July four, Okay. Five years ago. Wait four years ago, I do my math, right?

[0:24:06] Emily: Yeah.

[0:24:09] Lois: And basically he was saying, I guess I’m gonna have to pull this blog post up again because we’re still not getting it and that’s why we have to keep unTwist ng this narrative. So basically he has a picture on his blog and it’s a, it’s a girl, she’s got black skirt on and she’s got it pulled up and it starts down uh they’re written on her leg okay? And written on her leg and down mid calf. It says and and this is not what he’s saying. This is this is what we continue to perpetuate in our culture. Okay. Yeah. So uh halfway down her calf below the calf muscle um it says matron lee, no few inches up from that, it says prudish a few inches up from that, it says old fashioned um right below the knee. It says proper couple of inches above the knee. It says flirty halfway up the thigh. It says cheeky a little further up. It says provocative than the up further is asking for it. And then up further, I’m not going to say the word but it starts with an S. Four letter word and then up from there five letter word that starts with W. H. Now he is not perpetuating this. He’s saying basically we have got to stop that type of thought process because we are objectifying it. Like if if somebody, you know if here’s a flip side of it, if somebody wants to wear a skirt down to their ankles which I enjoy, I enjoy a long dress and I got tickled because this past year, apparently little house on the Prairie dresses came back in. I had a lot of friends like, no, never again. And then I have other friends who were not raised in legalistic situations regarding their clothing that were like oh my gosh, this is so cute. So you know, there are different concepts but you know that doesn’t necessarily mean that somebody’s dressing matron lee, it is a style,

[0:26:47] Emily: right?

[0:26:48] Lois: Um and so basically he’s talking about he’s probably he’s probably a good verbal counterpart, not counterpart partner without even knowing her of Sheila that you’ve had on. But I would love to hear what you read to me earlier today by Rebecca drum sta. Um, by the way, I just started following her recently. Um, so looking forward to that. But yeah, go ahead. And

[0:27:22] Emily: so she wrote an article just talking about what made her cringe at the song. And at the end of this article she wrote a letter, um, kind of in the style of the song and I’m going to go through these fast. You might want to go to her blog. I’ll link it in the show notes. Um or just tap back and listen to it again because this list is amazing. But she says, Dear daughter, it’s me, your mother. I think it’s time we had a talk. I never want you to dress a certain way for any boys approval or anyone else. I don’t want you to focus on the external, your whole life in order to please God or man. I don’t want you to think you’re worth is tied to what you do or do not wear. I never want you to worry about being hot. Your personality, character, heart and mind are more amazing and more important than being sexy. It is not your job to keep a boy or a man from lusting after you, jesus loves you. No matter what you wear, your body is perfect. There is no need to ever feel ashamed of it. Your clothes should accent who you are. Your clothes do not define you. It is never your fault. If you are physically assaulted, no matter what you did or did not have on your body. Your innocence virginity or sexual desires are not tied to the clothes on your body. Where clothes that are appropriate for the place or situation where close that enhance your natural beauty. Grace and dignity, wear clothes that are comfortable and are a tool to help you accomplish great things. Never worry what other people think.

[0:29:00] Lois: Mm That is a good letter and to all daughters and

[0:29:06] Emily: so beautiful. And

[0:29:07] Lois: You know what? I’ll be honest with you. And I’ve told you this before. My daughters are 26 and 23. And unfortunately I perpetuated hmm some of that verb. Ege and some of that same narrative to my girls before I realized what I was doing

[0:29:34] Emily: right. And I did I

[0:29:36] Lois: did the narrative of

[0:29:37] Emily: like the song

[0:29:39] Lois: Yeah, narrative of the song. Did that even did it some with my boys regarding you know, other girls. But I did that with my daughters ho and one of my daughters And I even had a brief conversation this past week and something that was said in a comment that was made by another person. Um, and I just and I said, um yeah, I used to do that too, but I think I’m getting better at it. And she turned and looked at me and said you are getting better at it, you know? So I wish I could turn back the clock. I wish I could turn back the clock. I can’t button. But when we know better, we do better. Um somebody somebody’s got a book coming out, her name is Aaron Han and I’m not um promoting her book because I’ve not read it. It’s coming out um in september basically she said, I’ve decided to take advantage of the bogus hashtag modest is hottest to to promote my adorable, toxic purity um challenging you, basically, she has a book coming out in september and she, I don’t know that she’s like if that made you throw up a little bit in your mouth, I have the book for you. It’s what she said, she said. Um, and then a quote is the only time churches are worried about modesty and purity is when it comes to their teenage girls. I think maybe you all need to take a hard look at why that is, wow. So that looks very interesting. Um,

[0:31:36] Emily: I have another book. I have not read. It actually just came out today, but it is an invitation to let go of and release body shame. And I just want to read part of the description of the book. It’s the name of it is breaking free from body shame. Dare to reclaim what God has named. Good bye jess Connolly. It’s one thing to know in your head that you were created in the image of God. Yet it’s quite another to experience this belief in your body against the cultural ideals of a woman’s worth. And between the two lies a world of frustration, disappointment, and the shame of somehow feeling both too much and never enough in your body. You were made for more than a love hate relationship with your body. And the reason I bring this invitation up to let go of that shame is because modest is hottest does heap shame on our bodies. It makes us want to hide them. It makes them makes us think, what is somebody else thinking about me and my body or how am I showing up? And what are they thinking? It does not help us live in our bodies in the temple, in a beautiful um Tabernacle that God has given you, it makes you cover up and hide. And this same author,

[0:33:13] Lois: you know, know somebody, you know, somebody is gonna take that statement right there, they’re gonna chop it in half and they’re going to say, Emily Louis wants all girls to uncover because they’re going to take out that cover up and hide and somebody out there as well, you ought to be covering up. This is again not what we’re talking about.

[0:33:38] Emily: No. Um, following jess on instagram, she talks a lot the same author, She talks a lot about worship in your everyday life, like everything is worship. And honestly, this summer I bought my first pair of shorts that wasn’t athletic shorts and the, I don’t have a thigh gap. We’ve talked about that I think before.

[0:34:06] Lois: Well, you know, you put your right foot On the right side of the sidewalk and you put your left foot two ft over and you have a thigh gap. But but

[0:34:23] Emily: anyway, I put these shorts on and there’s shorter than anything I’ve ever worn in public before outside of a swimsuit. Because remember we had, we wore swimsuits, mm but I walked out of the house that day and as I was driving down the road, it hit me. And this may be a new concept to some of us. But that wearing those shorts was an act of worship because

[0:34:52] Lois: Girl You are dropping all kind of one liners tonight. I love it. I love it. I know where you’re going. You’ll

[0:35:03] Emily: pull out what you ever want to pull out. But uh huh But it’s an it’s me showing up in my body saying God made me good and wherever I am in my body size or shape, I’m not going to be ashamed of how I made or the fact that I’ve had four babies or whatever has made me this way and this shape, Right, And I’m not going to cover up, uh man, now we’re I said it again, I’m not going to

[0:35:43] Lois: cut,

[0:35:45] Emily: but I’m not going to hide, I’m not going to hide

[0:35:48] Lois: your you’re given you’re given so much feed, it’s gonna be awesome. I’m just good telling you. And we are we are not we were not going to edit it. Maybe

[0:36:03] Emily: we should have just ended at Rebecca drums does list. She said it so well,

[0:36:07] Lois: doesn’t say it. Well, I think part of part of the raw of this video is the fact that mm men and women alike, who are trying to untwist this narrative in the church specifically, and have been trying to untwist this narrative when you hear something, even in a joking way, being perpetuated, again, it is very frustrating and you do come out kind of swinging because you’re like, I thought we were making progress, I thought we were getting it. And it doesn’t come down to you can wear pants, but you can’t wear shorts, you can wear cargo shorts, but you can’t wear short shorts, you can wear um your shorts have to be two inches above your knee, but you can’t wear shorts, you know, that come above your fingertips. It goes and it’s not it’s it goes back to it is not about the clothes. And some women were taught that the clothes that you wear make you Godly or not Godly make you modest or not modest. And so this is not about the clothes, it is about perpetuating something that says, you are more spiritual if you do this or that says that, because I’m worried how boys are going to look at you. Then you have to walk around dressed like this when the girls that a lot of girls that did dress like that, It didn’t keep them from being hurt. Right? Why? Because of sin? Because of thin. And somebody being allowed to just continue in their sin and say, well, you know those boys and if she hadn’t been dressed that way, he probably wouldn’t have come after her.

[0:38:09] Emily: I think what I think I’d like to land on is it goes back to following the holy spirit in your life and it is so frustrating sometimes that there isn’t a list. A list is easier. A list that says your shirt needs to cover your collarbone and you need to have sleeves that are 2″ long, covering your shoulders and shorts a certain length. And skirts a certain way, like that’s way easier. And so you will all each of us will have personal standards in our life of what, dressing as an image bearer. Yes. But when you’re making that decision, follow the Holy Spirit, please don’t follow shame and please don’t prioritize what is someone else going to think about my body?

[0:39:06] Lois: Yeah, that’s really good. I read somebody else’s article a few days ago um who was who was um a missionary. And you know, um talked about um other cultures that don’t cover up. You know, and and they don’t walk around in shame because of their culture. You know, those kind of things. And again, I’m not perpetuating not covering up. I do think that we have to we do have to be careful. Mm But it’s for ourselves. It’s between us and the Lord. It’s not that we have to be careful because somebody, we may cause someone else to stumble. Right?

[0:39:58] Emily: Um mm So as we’re coming out of this episode, this topic, I think it would be really fun.

[0:40:10] Lois: We’re going to fund now. We’re going to fun.

[0:40:13] Emily: I want to, I just want to know so we can leave everybody or maybe we should just leave them high strung. But I want to know what your micro joy is for this week.

[0:40:30] Lois: Mhm Well, I’ve been so intense about this conversation that we’re having today. I’m just like, I don’t know if I can compartmentalize and switch my brain off like that. Um I should be able to because I’m a D. D. But right now it’s not right now. I’m so focused. I can’t think. Do you

[0:40:48] Emily: Want Me to Go 1st?

[0:40:50] Lois: Yes, you start.

[0:40:52] Emily: Okay, so I have a macro joy. My sister graduated basic training last week and I got to talk to her on the phone for the first time in like three months.

[0:41:02] Lois: Awesome. That’s fantastic.

[0:41:06] Emily: And then my micro joy today I was driving down like Main street in our town and there was a girl with earbuds in and she was walking on the sidewalk and she was belting it out like she was jiving with whatever she was listening to and it made me so happy that she was just like, she wasn’t even like in the confines of her car, she was just walking down Main Street

[0:41:32] Lois: and just singing just

[0:41:33] Emily: singing. I’m not caring not a care in the world,

[0:41:36] Lois: I love that. Um Yeah I’m still not there yet. Yeah okay here’s a very little bitty micro joy, not a little bitty micro joy but um My my mom is hanging out with one of my sisters for about six weeks um out in California. And um she took my mom shopping because my mom has gotten really little, she’s just a little thing and her doctors like you’ve got to put more weight on. Um she is 87 so you know you can only make her do so much. But uh my sister took her shopping and sent sent my other sister and I pictures today of her in clothes that actually fit her because she’s wearing clothes that don’t fit her.

[0:42:35] Emily: Uh huh.

[0:42:37] Lois: And she sent pictures of her modeling her her little dresses and stuff and she just looked adorable and it just put a big smile on my face because she just looks so cute. And anyway

[0:42:56] Emily: I love it,

[0:42:57] Lois: that’s what comes from. I’m range the flip side of that is based on our conversation we’re having tonight, some of the dresses she would not allow my sister to purchase because she said that when she sat down and needed to cover her knee,

[0:43:20] Emily: so well, we all have our own personal convictions, right?

[0:43:28] Lois: Um preferences. Yes.

[0:43:30] Emily: Oh sorry, preferences, you’re right,

[0:43:32] Lois: thank you, will hess would be proud, but I said preferences. Okay, so you know what? We just kind of let it, we kind of let it rip tonight. Um and and that’s okay, we need to do that every once a while because something’s just need the tables flipped and um

[0:43:55] Emily: whether you think that,

[0:43:57] Lois: whether you think this episode was just a rant or not, that’s okay if it starts a conversation, if it gets you thinking,

[0:44:05] Emily: even if

[0:44:06] Lois: you disagree right? Even if you disagree with Emily, that’s fine. Have the conversation kate digging in, keep digging in because um you’re not gonna find modest is hottest in the bible. It’s not there, there’s no greek terminology for it. There’s no hebrew word, there’s no latin root word from, you know, you’re not going to find it in Aramaic. Does it need to be your tattoo? That’s all I’ve got.

[0:44:46] Emily: Okay friends this week as we’re wrapping this up, we want to thank our sponsor scripture flips. You can still get a 20% off code for your order of scripture flips. And you can find that link in our show notes as well as on all of our social media, like the links in our bio.

[0:45:14] Lois: Yes. You need to go to that and get your 20% off and go ahead and get your little scripture flips to put on your purse or in your pocket to get your journal so that you can write down your thoughts all of you. That keeps saying I’m gonna start journaling or I’m gonna write down my thoughts right when they come to me. Or if you’re a D. D. Like me and if you don’t write them down, you’re going to forget them. Go to that link because you’re not going to be disappointed.

[0:45:46] Emily: That’s for sure. Yeah. And for next week’s open mic minute prompt, we would love to hear your response to this song. Do you agree, disagree? What came up for you when you heard it? Um Did you cackle? Did did you cringe? Ah what is your response? And we will play them? Yeah. Episode 21,

[0:46:11] Lois: yep. And it’s okay if you don’t agree, but give us the reason why and no name calling. Hey, we wanna thank you for those that participated in that this last week’s Open mic minute with your worship songs. I’ve got some new worship songs for my playlist because of you guys. So thanks for that. And we’ll see you next time Emily. I’m gonna tell you by

[0:46:42] Emily: bye.