[0:00:05] Lois: Hey everybody and welcome to the R. F. W. P. Podcast. Sister seekers where we seek to find the truth and find God’s heart. I’m your host, Lois Mcnair and with me is my co host

[0:00:22] Emily: Emily Louis.

[0:00:23] Lois: Hi Emily.

[0:00:25] Emily: Hi Lois,

[0:00:27] Lois: I’m getting excited because we are basically at about a month from the RFP meet up in Missouri and I think it’s going to be awesome.

[0:00:41] Emily: Yeah, it’s going to be amazing. I can’t wait to be there, went and got a couple of sundresses and got already, you know, for the hot weather.

[0:00:52] Lois: Oh, is it supposed to be super hot? There?

[0:00:54] Emily: It is.

[0:00:55] Lois: Oh wow, okay.

[0:00:57] Emily: At least hot for this Montana girl.

[0:01:00] Lois: Yeah, I’m like, I live in south Alabama, 15 minutes north of the coast. I’m wondering how much hotter Missouri could be.

[0:01:08] Emily: You’re probably good

[0:01:10] Lois: then our heat and the excessive amounts of humidity.

[0:01:17] Emily: Right?

[0:01:18] Lois: Exactly. So speaking of the meet up, I need to know before we even talk about our Micro Joyce. I need to know if you have been practicing your dad jokes for the face off with brian Edwards from the recovering fundamentalist podcast.

[0:01:38] Emily: Well, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been getting some good ones, but I don’t have, I don’t own a poker face like a straight face. So I I’m going to have to do some serious practicing because you

[0:01:56] Lois: are, you are going to have to practice.

[0:01:59] Emily: Yeah, it’s gonna take a lot for me not to crack a smile.

[0:02:04] Lois: Yeah, because all my money is on you. Like all the money I’m bringing for the bet is on you. So you got to win. So you gotta practice that poker face,

[0:02:14] Emily: right?

[0:02:17] Lois: But before we get into your dad joke, I do have a Micro joy this week, do you?

[0:02:22] Emily: Yes, I do.

[0:02:23] Lois: So my micro joy is just something really simple. I’m very thankful to be a part of the worship team at our church, at our campus and I serve you know once or twice a month, which is great and I love it. Um and we have a extremely dedicated keyboard player and she’s the music director. Now I’ll explain that because some people may think when they hear music director that she leads the music now, she leads the band, she keeps us on track. She, you know, if something happens with, she has a microphone that she talks to talks into and talks into our ears in any way and then and then the rest of us lead worship and our worship leader is Trent, but she is so dedicated and has such a giving spirit, she’s literally not taken a sunday off and she hasn’t taken a sunday off in a year, wow. And she just wanted a sunday so that she could help move her little sister too texas for a ministry that she’s stepping into. And so my micro joy is two fold one. It was a blast getting to play keys again on a sunday morning and worship that way. And then it was really great for her to be able to be gone and have that time with her sister. So that’s my dual micro Joey,

[0:03:55] Emily: awesome. So my micro joy is, it rained here a little bit last night? And this morning when I woke up, I really wanted to go for a walk but I thought it would be too smoky because last night the air quality was really poor. But this morning I woke up to blue skies and fresh air, they’re amazing.

[0:04:18] Lois: That’s good. And for those of you that don’t know what’s going on on Emily’s side of the country, they’re dealing with a lot of fires not too far from them. And so it’s creating lots of smoke and bad air quality. So I’m glad you got a blue sky this morning with some rain

[0:04:40] Emily: that works. It’s incredible. Okay. I need to ask you if you know why they didn’t play cards on the ark and no, the answer is not because they were I F. B and couldn’t play

[0:04:53] Lois: cards. Wait a minute. We’ve jumped straight to the dad joke. Okay, is this a part of you practicing? Because I’m just gonna tell you now we got to know you’re stepping into the dad jokes.

[0:05:03] Emily: Okay,

[0:05:06] Lois: so

[0:05:06] Emily: it is catching you off guard.

[0:05:08] Lois: Yeah. Okay. So ask the question again,

[0:05:12] Emily: why didn’t they play cards on the art?

[0:05:16] Lois: I have no idea

[0:05:18] Emily: because Noah was always standing on the deck. Yeah, so bad. It is so bad,

[0:05:27] Lois: so bad. But you make me laugh. Oh, I’m going to have to work on my poker face because when, when you do this face off with brian, if I laugh it’ll get you laughing and I’m just gonna have to put my face into a pillow or so

[0:05:43] Emily: I told you when I edit our episode, I crack myself up. Let’s go back to us laughing. So you’re right. Yeah. Oh,

[0:05:57] Lois: I love to laugh though. It burns calories. It raises your endorphin, your endorphins or your serotonin. I don’t know, some medical thing that makes you feel better. Lots of laughing.

[0:06:14] Emily: And now we can jump straight into our topic if you’re ready. Okay, we can jump from box to box today.

[0:06:23] Lois: All right, Next box hop on the next box, not the next place

[0:06:31] Emily: we are talking about worship today and this like a having a heart of worship. And what does having worship sprinkled throughout your days and through your life look like? And it’s a w like our word, wonder and wonder and worship are so closely tied together. Do you think?

[0:06:56] Lois: Yes, I do think so. So, um not just worship because we’re not going to be necessarily talking about, like, you know, we’re not talking about music styles and all that stuff, but we’re talking about worship in in our lives, and and is there a distinction between the sacred and the secular?

[0:07:20] Emily: Right? Oh, I remember, I don’t know where I heard it, but I tried to tie the my time. Have you ever done that? Mhm. So, I like, mapped out my week and was like, I got to spend so many hours praying or serving and I had sex. I literally segregated it off to where I was typing instead of letting God be part of my whole day and thinking of it holistically, it was like, I gotta Jump back over into this box of worship or sacred for 10% of my hours in a week. Right? Mhm.

[0:08:05] Lois: Well, I’ll start us off in this conversation. Um I don’t read everything from got questions dot org, but I do read some of the things when I’m curious and um I thought this was really good. So I thought we could start out with an article and then just kind of flush it out from there. So this is this is from the people from got questions dot org and the question that they are responding to is does the bible make a distinction between the secular and the sacred? Okay, so here’s the article. We tend to categorize things and two categories often spoken are of secular and sacred by sacred. We usually mean christian themed or suitable for church use and by secular, we usually mean worldly or not having a christian thing. We speak of secular music versus sacred music. Um, for example, sacred music has over christian themes and secular music is well, everything else Does the bible distinguish between secular and sacred items? Well, in a sense, yes, the bible does speak of those who are set apart sanctified for special use. The very word for church in the new testament, ecclesia means I called out assembly. The people who um comprise the church are sacred. That is, they are called out of the world and set apart for God. They’re called to be saints. As in romans 17 they’re called to be salt and light Matthew chapter five verses 13 through 16. But in another sense, no, the bible does not distinguish between secular and sacred because all creation is God’s and one day All creation will be restored, restored Romans 8, 22 we know that God placed all things under christ’s feet and appointed him to be the head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him, who fills everything in every way. Ephesians 1 22 he did this so that God may be all in all. In other words, all peoples cultures, authorities will one day be brought completely under the lordship of jesus. Christ, christians engaging the culture should do so with a view to that end. For the christian in the workplace, it should not matter whether or not he or she is in vocational christian ministry. Even a secular job can be a sacred ministry to the Lord. Everything we do, from work to relationships, to hobbies, to eating and drinking is to be done to the glory of God. When we compartmentalize our lives into secular and sacred categories, we risk regulating church stuff to sunday’s and thinking that the rest of the week belongs to us. And then I love, um, I’m not reading the entire article, but um, I like this last paragraph. The common designations of secular and sacred are overused. A christian artist will create art to the glory of God. There is nothing overtly sacred about a still life of Ebola pairs, but there’s nothing secular about it either. A christian musician will create music to the glory of God. A mechanic will fix cars to the glory of God. Homemaker will bake cookies to the glory of God. The possibilities are endless. As we walk in the spirit, the line between secular and sacred becomes increasingly blurred.

[0:12:10] Emily: Mm

[0:12:14] Lois: So I do like that. I I like the way that that brings us into our discussion today. Huh.

[0:12:22] Emily: I love that last line. Just how it blurs the lines

[0:12:28] Lois: because this is a good blurring.

[0:12:30] Emily: Yes, we’re trying we’re trying to distinguish which is which but there are so closely related that we don’t need to right?

[0:12:43] Lois: But a lot of people were raised with those distinct distinctions. I can’t talk straight almost said do penguins, I think. But a lot of people are raised with those distinctions heavily. And I think that’s where people take to be separated and sanctified, um out of context and move it into isolation because we’re we’ve, you know, trying to distinguish. So so you mentioned worship and I think, you know, we’re talking about the sacred and the secular. So kind of walk us through some of your thoughts and what the Lord has been impressing upon you recently in this regard, Because you said you used to try to tie their time or or as the article says, compartmentalize, Yes,

[0:13:37] Emily: compartmentalizes such a good word. Because I didn’t realize that God was as present, I guess as I as he is. Mm um, forgetting that he is so close and which, which Maverick City Song says you’re closer than my next breath Or is that closer? Yes. Yeah. So he is that close to us? We can consult him. We can talk to him, we can ask for guidance. We can confess, oh, just so fast. But I had relegated the sacred and the secular so much that I didn’t know how to talk to him all day. It felt like I had to right make it a formal thing rather than a conversation.

[0:14:31] Lois: one of the things that you said to me this week and I’m and and you wrote it down, I’m looking at it is that everything in our lives can be worshipful. Worshipful. Can you kind of break that out a little bit?

[0:14:50] Emily: Yeah, so I tried to find the first place I know which person I follow on instagram. This idea first came from a few years ago, like kind of disrupted how I thought about worship and how I was doing going about my life, but I couldn’t find it. So I don’t remember what the first thing was, but like all these little things can be worshipful. Like I mentioned something really strange on an episode uh a couple of weeks ago about how me choosing to wear shorts was an act of worship. And it’s so funny, but it was me saying God, I am not going to be ashamed of my body and hide it. Mhm So that’s an act of worship Or we talked about rest as an act of worship. It’s something that says, I surrender, I surrender. I stand in wonder and I trust those are acts of worship and they can be anything. What would you say is an act of worship that we can do just throughout the day?

[0:16:01] Lois: Well, you know, we we did do an episode about sabbath rest a while back and I can’t remember which episode it was. But one of the things that you said in that, which I’ve hung on to is that rest is worship. A lot of people think that, okay, so I’m going to go sunday and we’re going to have corporate worship and then the rest of the week is different. But what I hear you saying is that carrying out our everyday tasks, whether it’s big task or small task with a connection to God gives us a sense of wonder and how he works in the mundane and the ordinary. And so I think sometimes we compartmentalize worship into the sacred and the secular right, and we take um sunday, this is my time for corporate worship. And this is what worship is. Because a lot of people think when you think about worship, we automatically think about singing worship styles, is the person called a worship leader or a song leader or a music director or the music man at the church or you know, whatever, and we can worship throughout the day because if God is overall and in all, and he put everything under christ’s feet, there is sacred flowing 24 7, but are we attuned to it? Are we allowing ourselves to realize that, you know, we see something well, that’s a beautiful gift from God, You can worship him in that moment. I’m just saying thank you.

[0:18:05] Emily: Mm I think when we’re saying everything can be sacred or everything can be worshipful. I don’t want you to the listener or even us to get the idea that we need to strive and work really hard to make everything about God. It stems from what he has done for us first. And I think that’s where wonder comes in. If you give yourself space, create some margin in your day and stand in wonder, be grateful, do something that makes you go, wow God and that attitude can carry throughout the rest of your day or can carry you to the next moment of wow, thank you God or being worshipful in our attitude so that it’s not just how can I make today worshipful like this? Trying to figure it out.

[0:19:02] Lois: Yeah, it’s not legalistic, it’s not a striving, it’s not a it’s not a half too. Again, it should be when we’re in all and wonder of what God is doing and how he is working. And then it it changes our perspective and our view of everything else around us. Mm you know

[0:19:28] Emily: right.

[0:19:30] Lois: one of the things that you said was um to not put God in an unintentional box, mhm Or time slot.

[0:19:49] Emily: Uh we okay, this just came to me and it ties together sunday our pastor talked about um passing on to the next generation. How are we being intentional to teach the next generation and pass on the stories of God’s promises and faithfulness. And as kind of an aside he said, we have to be careful not to limit how God works in the present by expecting him to work the same way he has in the past.

[0:20:29] Lois: And

[0:20:30] Emily: there are so many different ways. We can limit God by expecting him to Act a certain way. And it’s almost like we try to control God. See God, I read my bible, I read my three chapters and I prayed for my 20 minutes and look at me, you see now you have to or I was in the word, Where were you God? And that’s like, well I was there. But I also want to show up on your commute this morning or whatever it is, right. We have to be careful not to put him into this formula and expect she’s exam results.

[0:21:07] Lois: Right? I love a term that you used earlier and um or you were talking about. I can’t remember exactly how you worded it, but basically allowing him to disrupt our day.

[0:21:25] Emily: Mm right. You know like those interruptions but there we can get a plan in our mind and I try to start most day saying God, you know, have you heard that the line? Good morning God, this is your day. I am your child. Show me the way.

[0:21:48] Lois: Mm had

[0:21:50] Emily: not heard that. It’s just a little way to start the morning. Like what do you have for me today? God, what do you want me to be doing? Because I can get halfway through my day. And he’s like, um, hey actually I want you over here instead. Or this thing that you’re trying to rush through is actually not to over spiritual eyes it, but this interruption is actually the appointment I have for you today.

[0:22:15] Lois: Yeah. Because we, sometimes we tend to wake up, we have our list, we have our agenda, we have what we’ve got to do and we like, we’ve already got the plan, which there’s nothing wrong with planning but I’ve got my plan. Um I need you to bless what I already have planned but don’t disrupt

[0:22:34] Emily: it

[0:22:37] Lois: because I know better and I know what I need into accomplish today.

[0:22:42] Emily: Exactly as we were talking this definition I found I think yesterday came to mind again and this is from difference between dot com and I don’t know who they’re associated with but it’s a fun website. They have different explanations and one of the definitions that they have to describe the difference between sacred and secular, all Godly things are sacred obviously, well all everyday things have little or no connection with God are called secular things and I love this because whatever we do in connection to God for his glory is sacred. And mm I love how it pulls us back into that connection with God, that what is our relationship with him like? And when we talk about, well maybe I struggle with prayer, let’s let’s simplify it and just talk to God throughout your day, as you go about your day, say, what would you want me to do next? Or God please help in this situation or help someone. So as things come to mind, like you’re doing life with the Holy Spirit because we’re right, because we kind of are

[0:24:11] Lois: we, we absolutely are. If we’re allowing him to impact our lives as believers, Holy Spirit lives inside of us. Um we just have to allow him to do his sanctification work and um impress on our hearts to do things and not to do other things and allow him to continue to work. But sometimes we um well like I I’ve got to take care of this, I don’t have time to listen to what you want me to do. I saw I saw a real this week and um I can’t remember exactly what the audio was on it but it was like you know kind of like like no no I ah I know you want me to do that but that’s not what I want to do and and the theme was um when the Holy Spirit is asking you to forgive someone that you’re not ready to forgive.

[0:25:14] Emily: Oh yes, I saw that. Real. Yeah. Uh well thank you Holy Spirit, that’s not that’s not what I need to do right?

[0:25:24] Lois: You know you were talking about talking to jesus and I love I love the Braden lake elevation and Maverick city song talking to jesus mm No. Um and he talks about um you know I knew she was right, he was talking about my mama and my grandma, I knew she was right, because now I’m talking to jesus, I love talking to jesus and I’ll be talking to jesus for the rest of my life Mm and then he goes and talks about he’s got three of his own and his 15 year old came in while he was um singing his praise the other night and the kids, I’ll come back later and the does like, you know, your timing is right, why don’t you come on over here? So and he and then he talks about, you know, we started talking to jesus and now he’s talking to jesus, thank God, he’s talking to jesus, what are we talking about? We’re talking about generational, intentional understanding of the sacred and that everything belongs to God. And we should be talking to jesus all of the time in and throughout our day, the verses pray without ceasing that doesn’t mean like we’re walking around with our eyes closed, praying all day. It’s a, it’s a constant conversation and and I love this. He’s like, you know, uses the old um him what a friend we have in jesus, which I love that song and then he says, there’s no wrong way to do it. There’s no bad time to start. It doesn’t have to sound pretty. Just tell him what’s on your heart because it’s not a religion. It’s more like a friendship. Just talk to your father like you are his kid.

[0:27:19] Emily: Oh, that’s so good.

[0:27:21] Lois: So it just reminds me like really everything in our lives as believers when we are doing it for the glory of God is sacred. You know whether you’re a mom at home and you’re preparing dinner for you know six littles and and you are a stay at home mom and you’re cooking dinner and that can be done to the glory of God, But maybe you are a 40 hour a week corporate executive and and you, you know, run a big department and then you come home and you and your husband cook dinner together. But throughout that day, in your job, in what some would consider a quote unquote secular job, because it’s not vocational ministry, you’re you’re still you can still do that to the glory of God by showing his love um to those around you and being intentional in those relationships. Being intentional about talking to jesus and looking and listening for those opportunities to be in awe of him and to worship him and and to create an environment around you where people see something is different. Right?

[0:28:44] Emily: As we kind of wrap up this thought, I wanted to give people like a really practical, this is what you know this is what worship can look like in your everyday. Mm I don’t think that there is a one size like what you just said keeping our eyes open for that wonder. But as you ponder like what what could be worship in my life, what could be an act of me saying I trust you God or I stand in wonder and I see your hand and even if I’m not sure how this is gonna work out, I trust that you’re going before me those small things just look for those as you go about your week as you go about your weekend, pay attention for his hand in his his presence. Because it is there Louis said if we are aware the more we’re aware the more we noticed him because he is always near

[0:29:46] Lois: right. It’s one of his it’s one of his attributes. He can’t he can’t help it. He is, you know, he is omnipresent. It’s who, it’s who, it’s who he is.

[0:29:59] Emily: Yes, I’m so thankful. He’s not, he doesn’t change and we get to know him better and we get refined and he’s making us into more like him, which is incredible that that’s a big people for us.

[0:30:17] Lois: Yeah, there are times where we don’t want to blur the lines about things because it’s not healthy. Um, but in this particular situation, I think the more we are in tune with the father in his work in our lives, it absolutely should blur the lines between the sacred and the secular, which is terminally terminologies that we use. Um two encompass our our walk in our, in our whole lives. I would love to hear. Um, you know, I would love for our listeners, um to you. You know, direct messages. Hello at Sister seeker dot com, email us. I would love to hear what um you sense as an act of worship in your life. You know, maybe in the ordinary and the mundane, please reach out to us and communicate. We love love, love to hear from you and love to hear what God is doing in your life.

[0:31:25] Emily: Yes, I can’t wait to hear how God like steps in and makes himself known in little mundane moments.

[0:31:35] Lois: Yeah, I wanna thank you for listening today and you know, our episodes are usually a little longer, but I think we just kind of who we were ready just to kind of walk through this and talk through this and now we want to hear from you.

[0:31:51] Emily: Yeah, so thank you for being here and we love you, we’re praying for you, we appreciate you and we’ll be back again next week.

[0:32:02] Lois: See you soon guys.